DogSense Chat about my Making the Case for Force-free Training DVD

Interview with Linda Michaels MA: Making the Case for Force-Free Dog Training

by Denise O’Moore, Dog Sense Facebook Group

Denise: Hi all and welcome! Tonight we have the one and only Linda Michaels MA joining us to discuss making a case for force – free training. Welcome Linda – thank you for joining us!

How to make the case for force free dog training linda michaels del mar dog trainer dog psychology positive reinforcementDenise: First up- Welcome Linda Michaels — It’s good to have you here to ask you about the release of your DVD, “Understanding Research: Making the Case for Force-free Dog Training”.

Scott: Hello everyone. Hi Linda. I look forward to your advice.

Linda Michaels MA: Thank you so much for inviting me, Dog Sense. I feel very much at home here! This is my seminal work, and greatest contribution to the force-free training mission, bridging the gap between research, dog training and the pet parent. This presentation will help you back up your force-free methods with scientific facts. Facts and science are much harder to argue with than opinion or speculation.

Denise O’Moore: Hi Lisa you are on the right page!

Linda Michaels MA: The seminar I presented at the 2015 PPG Summit, titled “Understanding Research: Making the Case for Force-free Training,” is now available on DVD, for those of you who could not attend the summit. http://www.dogpsychologistoncall.com/learn-how-to-make-the-case-for-force-free-dog-training-from-linda-michaels-m-a-psychology/

How to make the case for force free dog training linda michaels del mar dog trainer dog psychology positive reinforcementDenise O’Moore: Linda what made you decide to develop the topic of Making the Case for Force-free Dog Training, using research?

Scott: Where do you find the most resistance to FF advice or training?

Denise O’Moore: Linda Michaels MA great question here from Scott  ^^^

Linda Michaels MA: I felt it was my calling as an ardent animal lover and responsible professional to share what I could to help others Make the Case for Force-free Training supporting our arguments with scientific evidence. So-called “training” collars designed to inflict pain (shock, prong and choke) and dominance training methods that often cause pain and condition fear have become the norm for many trainers and pet parents. In my opinion, their enormous popularity stems in large part from huge advertising budgets and the lack of standards of competence, transparency, and accountability in the dog training field.

Dawn: No pull harness is the ticket

Lisa: Glad you did because I’m so tired of explaining myself over and over to other trainers. Hoping to come out with a better way of explaining force free to people and WHY it’s scientific

Neil: Thank you for your comment to Linda Michaels MA

How to make the case for force free dog training linda michaels del mar dog trainer dog psychology positive reinforcementLinda Michaels MA: ME TOO! US TOO!

Denise O’Moore: Linda Scott has a question for you above

Linda Michaels MA: Can we wait until later for new questions? I hope to cover a lot of ground first laying a foundation. I LOVE your question Scott!

Denise O’Moore: Okay i’ll tag you on each so we can find them.

Linda Michaels MA: Thank you!

Julie: Even the word ‘scientific’ is being sullied by its misuse, how do you redefine and reclaim it?

How to make the case for force free dog training linda michaels del mar dog trainer dog psychology positive reinforcementLinda Michaels MA: I give definitions of the term science which is well defined…most folks will related well to authors such as Dr. Overall, so I highlight their scientific credentials wherever I can.

Julie: The arguments begin when research appears to give contradicting results, the general public wants facts. Hard sell and hi exposure mix with pseudoscience to make easy to adopt training methods. I wish you luck in making true facts sexy enough to sell, I hope you and all of us can!

Linda Michaels MA: The Hierarchy is sexy! Sort a’….LOL!

Denise O’Moore: lol shake it Linda!!!

Denise O’Moore: Linda What motivated you to take a stand for force-free training?

How to make the case for force free dog training linda michaels del mar dog trainer dog psychology positive reinforcementLinda Michaels MA: More than 15 years ago, I first began applying my graduate training in learning and behavior, and research experience in behavioral neurobiology, to canine behavior consulting. The field was moving quickly in the direction of Positive Reinforcement methods. I started my career on the ground floor of a progressive “trainers in training” program at the San Diego Humane Society. Little did I know then that the era of Positive Dog Training would not last long. Much to my dismay and disbelief, dominance training methods and collar devices designed to cause pain came back with a vengeance. As so many of us are, I was driven to try to alter the course of dog training. I created Understanding Research: Making the Case for Force-free Training, and The Hierarchy of Dog Needs TM unveiled in the seminar, because learning shouldn’t hurt.

Denise O’Moore: Linda so how does understanding research help trainers?

How to make the case for force free dog training linda michaels del mar dog trainer dog psychology positive reinforcementLinda Michaels MA: The first section of the seminar is about Understanding Research. As science-based dog trainers, it’s important that we understand scientific research in order to most effectively support our position as Force-free trainers. The seminar shows how understanding scientific research supports the force-free training you’re already doing, and how you can argue your case even better. We examine where science-based dog training comes from by taking a look at the history of “learning” and behavior modification, and specifically, how psychology relates to dog training. We open the door to Darwin, Pavlov, Skinner, Breland & Breland, Wolpe.

Denise O’Moore: Are you referring to peer-reviewed studies in the seminar?

Joseph: I have heard of trainers going from force to force free. I have also heard lately of a lot going from force free to “balance trainers”Has anyone else seen this and know why this is happening?

How to make the case for force free dog training linda michaels del mar dog trainer dog psychology positive reinforcementLinda Michaels MA: Hi Joseph, I will answer this later, thank you.

Denise O’Moore: Great question Joseph Linda ^^^

Linda Michaels MA: Scott — where, oh where. It seems like most everywhere. The resistance is often in small or large geographic areas…but the problem continues to spread ubiquitously.

Denise O’Moore: Scott ^^^

Linda Michaels MA: Yes! I also discuss why peer-reviewed studies are so important, and how to critically analyze a scholarly journal article.

Denise O’Moore: What are the types of research studies that pet professionals can use to make the case for force-free training?

How to make the case for force free dog training linda michaels del mar dog trainer dog psychology positive reinforcementLinda Michaels MA: The third section of the DVD discusses specific types of research studies including: surveys, case studies, correlational studies, functional analysis and single subject design and experimental studies. You’ll see fascinating video from the Russian silver fox study that examines selective breeding for tameness and aggression. I discuss WHEN and WHY case studies are important and outline some of the features and criteria of a rigorous scientific research study. Here’s one of my favorite resources, Good Trainers: How to Identify One by Dr. Karen Overall. This is not a study but important to us nonetheless.

Scott: I agree. Especially in “rehabilitation” now. And communities where police dog trainers can do their field trials out in the country or the central valley area.

Lauren: Is your DVD available in The UK, Linda? It sounds fabulous!

Denise O’Moore: Yes Lauren and we will post links for it at the end – thanks for asking

Lauren: Great! Thanks 🙂

Linda Michaels MA: Yes, very popular in the UK, it ships there! You can see a preview and buy here.

Lauren: Thank you 😀

Rosee: Do you think it’s enough to make the scientific case for force-free training? I sometimes wonder where the ethical argument is being held (apart from in the realm of philosophy) , the simple humane and compassionate aspect that causing pain, intimidation and fear to another being is wrong. Because I see the tendency that the discourse is mainly about effectiveness (i.e. HOW best to train) and almost nothing about WHAT we feel entitled to demand of our dogs. Denise.

How to make the case for force free dog training linda michaels del mar dog trainer dog psychology positive reinforcementApril: Good question. As a zoo animal trainer, I always referred to the Five Freedoms: one of which is the freedom from fear and distress by ensuring conditions and treatment which avoid mental suffering. This led me to use force-free training, where zoo animals cooperate with their own management and medical procedures.

Linda Michaels MA: Rosee I’m coming back to answer this very, very important question: This is what is illustrated by the Hierarchy of Dog Needs; meeting Needs comes FIRST, then Training, using all Force-free method. This is a guide with ethics embedded right in the core of it!

Rosee: thank you! Yes, I have downloaded this, of course! And need-based education is a great interest of mine!

Denise O’Moore: Linda what are some “opinion-swaying” scientific resources for force-free dog trainers?

Positive Police Dog Trainers Heierarchy of Dog Needs Linda Michaels MA Del Mar Dog TrainerLinda Michaels MA: Scott, Positive Police Dog Trainer, Guy Williams is opening the IMPACT Working Dog Conference with the Hierarchy of Dog Needs, which is very big deal for all in my opinion.

Linda Michaels MA: Denise O’Moore No. Barring neurological damage and biological factors such as hormonal fluctuations, in terms of behavior modification, wonderfully, there isn’t a behavior I can think of that cannot be effectively addressed with Management, Antecedent Modification, Differential Reinforcements of DRI (Incompatible) DRA (Alternate) DRO (Other – no undesired behavior in a predetermined amount of time) DRL (Lower frequency in a predetermined amount of time), Counter-conditioning and/or Desensitization. More…

Scott: That’s VERY exciting! !!!

Matt: Very cool! Linda is top notch in my book!

Linda Michaels MA: Thank you!

Denise O’Moore: Linda Michaels MA do you have slides you can post regarding last question?

Joseph: Do you think one of the reasons why force trainers are so popular with general public is because they make things simpler for clients to understand. Where as force free trainers can get a bit too wordy

How to make the case for force free dog training linda michaels del mar dog trainer dog psychology positive reinforcementLinda Michaels MA: As far as “opinion swaying” Denise O’Moore The second section of the seminar DVD helps trainers and other pet professionals make the best use of research and other resources available to us. I supply resources on everything from scholarly journal articles supporting force-free methods to No Shock, No Prong, No Choke, No Dominance Facebook pages that cite and collect these resources, and I introduce the Hierarchy of Dog Needs as a resource as well.

Denise O’Moore: great graphics Linda are these available as downloads for people to use?

Denise O’Moore: What are the types of research studies that pet professionals can use to make the case for force-free training?

Linda Michaels MA:  YES! All FREE. Please USE. SHARE. Speak up for the dogs with memes and in every venue wherever we can each day.

Dawn: And easy for pet parents as well! 😀

Linda Michaels MA: Please grab the graphics from this Chat to Share. Contact me about using the Hierarchy in your business materials or advertising. lindapositively@gmail.com

How to make the case for force free dog training linda michaels del mar dog trainer dog psychology positive reinforcementLinda Michaels MA: Regarding RESEARCH Denise O’Moore The third section of the DVD discusses specific types of research studies including: surveys, case studies, correlational studies, functional analysis and single subject design and experimental studies. You’ll see fascinating video from the Russian silver fox study that examines selective breeding for tameness and aggression. I discuss WHEN and WHY case studies are important and outline some of the features and criteria of a rigorous scientific research study. Here’s one of my favorite resources, Good Trainers: How to Identify One by Dr. Karen Overall. This is not a study but important to us nonetheless.

Lisa: Question for whenever you can get to it: What do you think is the best way to respond when someone asks people for a recommendation and people mention someone in your area who uses very detrimental methods. I don’t feel I should bring it up in front of the whole group but people in the community keep referring this person who just does horrible things to dogs. Do we say something? just post something? Warn people?

Linda Michaels MA: Will reply later, thank you!

Jeff: Aren’t we supposed to be the voice for those that can’t speak?

Denise O’Moore: ADMIN NOTE: We are almost half way through and still have a few questions for Linda then we will be opening it up to all – if you have asked something and it hasn’t been answered yet please tag ME and we will get to it! Thank you.

Denise O’Moore: Linda how can people investigate and analyze a topic without being an expert?

How to make the case for force free dog training linda michaels del mar dog trainer dog psychology positive reinforcementLinda Michaels MA: The fourth section of the seminar describes how I myself approached the “hot topic” issue of wolfdog training before I could be considered an expert, in order to justify training them. I describe how I researched a subject (wolfdogs) that I knew little about, and reached a conclusion that I could support with confidence to successfully argue my case to train them as a result of my investigation and analysis. You’ll see videos of wolfdog training with force-free methods alone in this seminar.

Dawn: Get in touch with great vets and great trainers for best friend results

Laura: Hi Linda, One thing I find difficult is how to approach a situation where someone is using force based methods. As someone who believes wholeheartedly in force-free training and speaking up for those without a voice, I find it hard to see people training in this way and yet I have no idea how to approach the situation, how do you suggest we get our message across in a simple, informative way? Thank you!

How to make the case for force free dog training linda michaels del mar dog trainer dog psychology positive reinforcementLinda Michaels MA: I will get back to you in a few minutes, thank you!

Denise O’Moore: I have it saved

Rosee: I feel Laura’s question is related to mine above.

Denise O’Moore: Linda Have you found much support for using exclusively force-free methods among professionals in dog-related fields?

Linda Michaels MA: Yes! Dr. Katrina Ward, veterinary behaviorist, presented the Hierarchy of Dog Needs to the Australian Veterinary Association’s Tasmanian branch. Dr. Joanna McLaughlan, veterinary behaviorist, uses the Hierarchy in the reference packages she gives to her patients. Dr. Joanna McLaughlan, veterinary behaviorist, uses the Hierarchy in the reference packages she gives to her patients. Rescues, working dog trainers and others are finding the Hierarchy of Dog Needs helpful to teach the importance of meeting our dogs’ needs and force-free training methods to others.

How to make the case for force free dog training linda michaels del mar dog trainer dog psychology positive reinforcementDenise O’Moore: Linda what else will you be doing to help make the case for force-free training?

Linda Michaels MA: Hang on everyone, I will get to your questions as soon as possible, and one way or another I will answer each one! Thank you for bringing this into the light and helping us find solutions to the state of the dog training industry.

Denise O’Moore: Linda I have all the questions so don’t worry

Rosee: you’re doing a brilliant job!!

Linda Michaels MA: I plan to be speaking and teaching on the subject of Making the Case for Force-free Dog Training and the Hierarchy of Dog Needs in a variety of venues and locations after the release of my handbook of the Hierarchy of Dog Needs. I am in the process of writing a Handbook to accompany The Hierarchy. The handbook details each level of the pyramid, every item listed on each level, and all of the force-free behavior modification methods. The rationale for inclusion of the methods listed and the exclusion of aversive/punitive methods is fully supported with scientific research. I hope to have the Handbook of the Hierarchy of Dog Needs out by the end of the year. It is a tool for everyone from pet professionals to pet parents who would like to have a guide on hand for each subject.

Julie: I’m sold, how do we pre order

Linda Michaels MA: The Hierarchy of Dog Needs may be used as an assessment tool to help identify areas that need attention, as a teaching tool, as a handout, speaker slide or for blog subject material and more. I will be detailing a list of different ways it can used on the Hierarchy of Dog Needs page.

How to make the case for force free dog training linda michaels del mar dog trainer dog psychology positive reinforcementDenise O’Moore: that sounds fantastic Linda – when do you see it being available?

Scott: Can I come work under you?

Linda Michaels MA: The Hierarchy of Dog Needs Handbook should be available by the end of the years. I’m just loving writing it!

Dawn: There really is never a reason to use fear as training

Denise O’Moore: no!

Laura: I can’t wait for the handbook, I’m only just starting to learn and your hierarchy of dog needs has really helped, it’s such a fantastic visual!

Linda Michaels MA: Thank you, Laura…it really warms my heart to hear you say that. Makes all the work feel worth it!

Linda Michaels MA: I have a gorilla-training intern right now, Scott and am open to more FF trainers, of course!  I love your doggie ambulance!

Denise O’Moore: Linda Michaels MA I’m going to post some earlier questions for you – first up from Joseph: Do you think one of the reasons why force trainers are so popular with general public is because they make things simpler for clients to understand. Where as force free trainers can get a bit too wordy

Denise O’Moore: And one from earlier Linda – I see in the “Making the Case” DVD seminar and in your Hierarchy that you are not recommending +P, -R and ALSO not –P nor Extinction! Isn’t this radical?

Linda Michaels MA: Joseph I believe you asked about trainers switching from FF to Balanced…this is a very sad development. I feel that when FF trainers understand that there is never a reason or excuse to use harsh methods, and that FF methods as listed in the Hierarchy, will address most ALL behavior problems, that we will be able to teach and hang onto them.

Dawn: Are some dogs easier to train then others?

Linda Michaels MA: I’m coming back online to answer your great question, Dawn! Although learning principles apply to ALL dogs, — there are three things that stand out that make training one dog, quite different than training another. 1. Genetics 2. Early Socialization History and 3. Traumatic Events. That’s it in a nutshell. Early Socialization, for example, could have been a well-meaning pet parent tossing their dog into a dog park situation thinking that will help socialize their dog, only to have it backfire. A Traumatic Event could be something small in our eyes, but of great import to our dogs. A Traumatic Event could also, mean dominance training method or device.

Linda Michaels MA: This speaks to both Denise and Patick: Barring neurological damage and biological factors such as hormonal fluctuations, in terms of behavior modification, wonderfully, there isn’t a behavior I can think of that cannot be effectively addressed with Management, Antecedent Modification, Differential Reinforcements of DRI (Incompatible) DRA (Alternate) DRO (Other – no undesired behavior in a predetermined amount of time) DRL (Lower frequency in a predetermined amount of time), Counter-conditioning and/or Desensitization.

Denise O’Moore: Thanks Linda

Linda Michaels MA: No, Denise…not radical in my corner of the dog world! +P and –R are absent because although these methods decrease frequency of behavior (the main effect), the side effects (fear, generalization of response to stimulus in the treatment environment, etc.) are of concern and generally unacceptable effects to force-free trainers.

Denise O’Moore: Not radical here either but for some it is. Thank you for your answer.

Linda Michaels MA: And moreover, There is also more than sufficient evidence showing that Extinction and Negative Punishment are often perceived as aversive to dogs. Citation Jakovcevic, A., et al., (2013). Frustration behaviors in domestic dogs. Journal of Applied Animal Welfare Science. 16 (1).

Denise O’Moore: Linda this is a great question by Rosee: Do you think it’s enough to make the scientific case for force-free training? I sometimes wonder where the ethical argument is being held (apart from in the realm of philosophy) , the simple humane and compassionate aspect that causing pain, intimidation and fear to another being is wrong. Because I see the tendency that the discourse is mainly about effectiveness (i.e. HOW best to train) and almost nothing about WHAT we feel entitled to demand of our dogs.

Linda Michaels MA: I’ve come back to address this, Denise O’Moore! It’s sadly true, that the “mechanics” rather than the relationship has held sway over dog training. This is why Ethics are embedded in the Hierarchy of Dog Needs. And why the Training Needs scaffold is called “Do No Harm” Management and Learning. Only after a ” Do No Harm” platform is established as the foundation to move forward, do we discuss technique. This is where our “industry” fails the dogs. Dog training needs a “Do No Harm” ethical code! Other professions involving interactions with sentient beings are called to uphold ethical standards set by their fields and we should as well. I could not put more emphasis on this. Thank you for raising a KEY concern!

Scott: Do you apply similar teachings to your interactions with people?

Laura: Ohhh good question!

Linda Michaels MA: Scott — please see the Victoria Stilwell article link below. She says it quite well!

Scott: I will. I have no doubts you do, but I see many that don’t.

John: Hi Linda, and thank you for giving your time here! I haven’t watched your seminar YET. Scientific studies on behaviour require a vast case study foundation,with reasonable and natural variances, and quantifiable results. Were these resources available to you? Did you have to titrate them from studies already available? And what surprises did you find on your journey?!

Linda Michaels MA: I’m back to address one part of your question that I didn’t get to, John. Two major surprises that come to miind are: 1. The sensitivity of our dogs, and 2. The resistance of the dog training field to take on a “Do No Harm” code with the animals people profess to love. Dominance methods and loving dogs seems clearly antithetical to me.

John: I utterly agree that the two thoughts are completely incompatible. And I think there are enough dog & animal lovers, sympathisers, and those with common sense to initially support FF in theory. And then go on to distill what is best for the animal’s welfare and its learning experience. It won’t happen overnight, but I think the best tool is the amazing graphics and simple messages that you and Denise are offering to the public.

Linda Michaels MA: Thank you, thank you! Yes! The Hierarchy was 15 years in the making in my head and almost a year in it’s creation. I’ve had some great scientific minds to help me distill the theory and the message, such as Dr. Simon Gadbois, who I cannot thank enough for taking the time to discuss with me.

John: And it is because of you, and other genius’ in their relative fields that science is made easily relatable, and understandable for the general public. Let’s all hope that CM’s theories will soon be on the event horizon.

Linda Michaels MA:  This is my mission. To use the gift of my education and passion to help change the course of treatment with our best friends…our ever lovin’ dogs. Your words have made my day.

Tamara: If -R/-P and extinction aren’t in the hierarchy how would you advise FF trainers to truly implement this mindset to clients?? Heck, I’ve yelled “shut up!” to my dogs (they were throughly desensitized as pups to yelling) and I KNOW it’s ineffective, but even I’m human.

Denise O’Moore: Admin Note: We have 10 mins left so please get your questions in now!

Linda Michaels MA: Rosee. No I do NOT think it’s enough to make scientific arguments. We need to address this problem within the field and the industry on EVERY front, all at the same time. I’ve been making scientific arguments — having a master’s degree in animal behavior, I could not be a bigger fan of education as you might expect. However, I have become an animal welfare advocate and this is the calling of FF trainers who recognize the sad state of affairs in the dog training industry, in my opinion.

Jeff: I certainly agree that -P and extinction could be perceived as aversive to a dog. But don’t most force-free trainers subscribe to the LIMA approach, and wouldn’t -P and extinction fall into that as well?

Denise O’Moore: Linda Laura asks: Hi Linda, One thing I find difficult is how to approach a situation where someone is using force based methods. As someone who believes wholeheartedly in force-free training and speaking up for those without a voice, I find it hard to see people training in this way and yet I have no idea how to approach the situation, how do you suggest we get our message across in a simple, informative way?

Lisa:  Especially in a public forum such as fb

Linda Michaels MA: Joseph. I’ve heard of this issue. One of my answers is the new simple meme’s and the Hierarchy of Dog Needs which is easy-to understand for ALL — everyone from pet parents to veterinary behaviorists are finding it a practical tool.

Linda Michaels MAOf course, competence and the ability to train efficiently is necessary, as well as accountability and transparency in advertising.

Helen: Thank you Linda I look forward to getting your dvd

Linda Michaels MA: Thank you! You can see a preview and purchase hereI’ll have a special bonus code at the end of the chat as well

Linda Michaels MA:  Laura: This can be tricky…but I am clear about methods with all. Finding the format where you can best reach as many people as possible without endangering your well-being, of course, helps. I post meme’s, I have argued for years with so-called Balanced Trainers, and have not found it to be helpful. Of course, Animal Abuse Masquerading as Dog Training is the problem we face.

Rosee: it occurs to me that we could also help by more education of the ‘consumer’…..After all, there is an element of supply and demand in this.

Denise O’Moore: Linda: Lisa asks: Question for whenever you can get to it: What do you think is the best way to respond when someone asks people for a recommendation and people mention someone in your area who uses very detrimental methods. I don’t feel I should bring it up in front of the whole group but people in the community keep referring this person who just does horrible things to dogs. Do we say something? just post something? Warn people?

Laura: Thank you Linda, I actually find the people I come across in real life harder to educate, without walking up to them and handing them a flyer, it can be difficult to get the conversation started without causing any conflict or upset.

Linda Michaels MA: Coming back to this, Laura. I agree direct confrontation is the most delicate and difficult for me as well. We have to pick our battles. I might say, “I was wondering if you’ve ever tried a front-clip harness? Have you heard about all the medical injuries that pressure around your dog’s neck can cause?”. I tell people, “I was so surprised to learn of these possible injuries”. And, frankly, in part, I was surprised. Often people will related to medical issues, when they cannot be reached initially, on Do No Harm psychological grounds. We need to strengthen our animal welfare laws and ban shock collars in the US. Dr. Overall’s article Good Trainers lists some. If you email me and I’ll be happy to send you a link. It’s my favorite resource. lindpositively@gmail.com

Denise O’Moore: Okay we still have 4 great questions from John, Tamara, Jeff and Scott. Linda when you are ready I’ll start to post them.

Linda Michaels MA: Yes, Rosee…reaching the pet parents and providing direction for those innocent folk just looking for some help, is paramount. Joining Together, supporting each other and Sharing what we know to be true AND can back up with empirical evidence will create the sea-change we all here wish to see.

Rosee: thank you! that is so encouraging!

Scott:Do you feel that schools like KPA, Ian Dunbar Sirius dog training is helping or becoming stale in comparison to the dog psychology centre by CM and Jeff Gellum and Sean O’Sheas schools for dog trainers?

Linda Michaels MA: Lisa  — I would say, offhand, depending on the audience and the recommender, that I would like to offer an alternative that is known to be safer and more effective as well as completely dog-friendly!

Denise O’Moore: Linda Scott asked: Do you apply similar teachings to your interactions with people?

Denise O’Moore: Linda John asks: Hi Linda, and thank you for giving your time here! I haven’t watched your seminar YET. Scientific studies on behaviour require a vast case study foundation,with reasonable and natural variances, and quantifiable results. Were these resources available to you? Did you have to titrate them from studies already available? And what surprises did you find on your journey?!

Linda Michaels MA: You haven’t watched my seminar YET! LOL. Ok, you get a break…for the moment. Not necessarily at all…dogs and small children have no voice and it is our responsibility to speak for them. The best analysis of the concept of “let’s be nice to everyone all the time” is published in the below blog from Victoria Stilwell. I agree entirely!

Denise O’Moore: Scott ^^^

Denise O’Moore: Linda: from Tamara: If -R/-P and extinction aren’t in the hierarchy how would you advise FF trainers to truly implement this mindset to clients?? Heck, I’ve yelled “shut up!” to my dogs (they were throughly desensitized as pups to yelling) and I KNOW it’s ineffective, but even I’m human.

Linda Michaels MA: Using Positive Reinforcement on Dogs vs People POSITIVELY.COM

Denise O’Moore: Linda this is a great question by Jeff: I certainly agree that -P and extinction could be perceived as aversive to a dog. But don’t most force-free trainers subscribe to the LIMA approach, and wouldn’t -P and extinction fall into that as well?

Linda Michaels MA: John. Great question. Some of the research will not be forthcoming because of ethical issues in experimental design in laboratory setting. These restrictions by Animal Subjects Committee and universities preclude some investigations, regarding the effects of shock collar training for example…and I feel that it is a good thing. However, we have a great deal of classical works to draw on . I am on a Canine Behavior Research FB page, that may interest you that is devoted to finding scholarly journal articles and nothing else. Please email me if you would like further information on the group. lindapositvely@gmail.com

Lisa: Have to run. Thank you very much for your time. Looking forward to receiving the dvd

Linda Michaels MA: Thank you Lisa!

Denise O’Moore: Admin note: We are out of time! please hang in there while all above questions are answered and we will be posting links to Linda’s DVD

Denise O’Moore: Linda – final question for the night from Scott: Do you feel that schools like KPA, Ian Dunbar Sirius dog training is helping or becoming stale in comparison to the dog psychology centre by CM and Jeff Gellum and Sean O’Sheas schools for dog trainers?

Linda Michaels MA: I will answer a few more of the questions already posed, but for those who need to leave, here’s a special offer for you! If you purchase the DVD from my website within the hour, I will include a FREE copy of my personal dog training manual. Buy here.

Denise O’Moore: Linda I have posted all remaining questions and tagged you above

Linda Michaels MA: Working on them now, thanks1

Linda Michaels MA: Tamara! Great question! “If -R/-P and extinction aren’t in the hierarchy how would you advise FF trainers to truly implement this mindset to clients?? Heck, I’ve yelled “shut up!” to my dogs (they were throughly desensitized as pups to yelling) and I KNOW it’s ineffective, but even I’m human.” My answer: I put it as simply and clearly as possible: it’s a DO NO HARM ideology, that is: Do No Harm physically and Do No Harm psychologically. You’d be surprised how quickly most people Get it.

Laura: Thank you so much for your time Linda and thank you for hosting it Denise!

Rosee: I second that! Brilliant conversation and such an important one!

Denise O’Moore: More than welcome and don’t forget we have our BSL chat tomorrow night so please keep an eye out for posts. Thanks for joining in !

Marta: Thank you Linda.

Denise O’Moore: A few more questions to be answered so hang on – and THANK YOU all for joining us this evening.

Linda Michaels MA: Question from Jeff: I certainly agree that -P and extinction could be perceived as aversive to a dog. But don’t most force-free trainers subscribe to the LIMA approach, and wouldn’t -P and extinction fall into that as well? My answer: I understand many trainers use LIMA, however, I do not subscribe to the LIMA approach per se. I subscribe to the new paradigm that closes the door on aversive/punitive methods — The Hierarchy of Dog Needs. The methods are mix and match and may be used in any order. It’s a new day in FF training.

John: Thank you Linda and Denise for organising !

Denise O’Moore: Okay Linda I think the final question is from Scott: Do you feel that schools like KPA, Ian Dunbar Sirius dog training is helping or becoming stale in comparison to the dog psychology centre by CM and Jeff Gellum and Sean O’Sheas schools for dog trainers?

Scott: Just the hierarchy of dogs needs will open the door to different aspects of your mind, that you’ll be able to understand how training will fit in and when you should work on certain skill sets for each dog. A good guideline to help you be patient and understand and open to what your dog might be telling you or asking for.

Linda Michaels MA: Final question for the night from Scott: Do you feel that schools like KPA, Ian Dunbar Sirius dog training is helping or becoming stale in comparison to the dog psychology centre by CM and Jeff Gellum and Sean O’Sheas schools for dog trainers?” My answer: I’m not sure I would compare those schools to each other — personally, I’ve earned the PPG , PCT-A credential, have my master’s degree and affiliations that match my ethics. I’ve come to the conclusion that these are the best fit for me!

How to make the case for force free dog training linda michaels del mar dog trainer dog psychology positive reinforcementLinda Michaels MA: One more time, If you purchase the DVD from my website within the hour, I will include a FREE copy of my personal dog training manual. Buy here

Linda Michaels MA: This is Tawny! She lives with Jen Bergren — pet photographer extraordinaire.

Denise O’Moore: Linda Michaels MA – wow thank you so much for all your answers! And thank you to all members on – great questions! linda will be posting links for her DVD so make sure you check them out!

Linda Michaels MA: And you can download and read more about the Hierarchy here.

 

Denise O’Moore: Thank you Linda Michaels MA!

Linda Michaels MA: Thank you, Denise O’Moore and everyone at Dog Sense for putting this together for us. What a great opportunity of share and speak to your amazing followers…of which I am one!

Marta: Thank you for helping us spread the word!:)

Linda Michaels MA: If your question has not been answered please feel free to meet me on my FB page, and let’s talk about it!

Linda Michaels MA: https://www.facebook.com/linda.michaels.98

Tamara: Thank you Linda and Denise for a wonderful, informative hour and a half that you each have volunteered your time for. We, our clients, and dogs in our care/training everywhere are a very lucky lot!

Denise O’Moore: Thanks Tamara – and thank you for earlier xxx

Helen: Yes thank you both smile emoticon for volunteering your time x

Rosee: Thank you from me too

Denise O’Moore: Don’t forget tomorrow – same time same place we have another great guest: https://www.facebook.com/events/839457399532418/ Louise Thompson Brilliant discussion – just read through the posts, and really enjoyed them!!